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TOPIC: Kolchak's Gold

Re: Kolchak's Gold 7 years 3 months ago #11435

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As it has been claimed previously some academics believe all the gold had been accounted for? Clearly the Soviets did not believe so. Kolchak indeed did record his expenditure prior to the capture that is not in dispute. It was remaining gold reserves and unrealiable account of the orginal amount of gold captured by at Kazan.

in around 1928 ex white Russian Soldiers was contacted by the Soviets and went to Russia to try to recover some of the gold buried not far from Kazan. Arriving in Russia they soon realised the soviets was not going to keep their end of the bargin. 2 fled and 2 were inprisoned on to be realesed after they dropped all claim to the treasure. The Soviets thought they had enough information to recover the treasure themselves, However they failed.

The leader of that Soviet expedition the director of the bank of Kazan Nikolai Prasolov was later executed by the orders of Starlin as an enemy of the state in 1929.

The following story below tells of part of search and later 1931 lawsuit by the 2 of the exwhite Russian Soldiers who tried to sue the Soviets under French Law.

Thew case went on for years and never appeared to have ever been resolved.

To be continued.....

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Re: Kolchak's Gold 7 years 3 months ago #11448

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Hello again

They say that were theres treasure evil is never far away. And Kolchak and missing russian treasure stories was not immune from the scammers and con artists. The following story about a failed treasure hunt after hidden Russian gold is a case example in question.

Like with all treasure stories there are those who for evil lucrative purposes manipulate stories for their agendas and personal gain. In the 1930 during the great depression there was a willing audience to listen to the diamond studded words of con artists.

The following newspaper artcile puts in perspective how scam artists can muddle the treasure trail even further....

To be continued

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Re: Kolchak's Gold 7 years 3 months ago #11450

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In summing up the story.

It appears we have several versions on the fate of treasure?

1. Was some of the treasure shipped on the Minnihaha across the Balti onto London then onto New york?

2. Or some of buried a few miles away from Karzan in a forrest?

3. Lost on a train wreck on Lake Baikal

4. Or white army troop dragging the treasure over the frozen lake froze to death and as the ice melted in the spring the treasure sunk into the lake Baikal?

5. Remaining Czec legionares stole the treasure amonst themselves and squandered it escaping Russia?

6.found abandoned at a train station and Stolen by the Japanese as the white Russian fled to Valdivostock?

7. Buried by fleeing whites near the Omsk village?

8. Buried near Krasnoyarsk on the way to lake Baikal?

9. Captured by the Red Army?

10. Or perhaps part or all of the above?

A mystery indeed...

What is no mystery is todays equivilant value of what was taken from the Bank at Kazan. This the value is based on the English pound value of Gold at the time 4.25 pounds per ounce of gold. 70 million pounds would roughly equate to well over 16 million ounces at todays prices at say for example 1600 dollars a ounce , it would be about 26 Billion dollars in todays value. Working on the principle of 32000 ounces to the ton the weight of the gold Kochak forces had to move in winter during a fightinmg retreat about 514 tons of gold. Just over one third of Russia's 1917 total gold reserves.

it would of been a huge logistical nightmare for kochack. Clearly there must of been several trains moving the gold east from the advancing soviets. So from this theory it is highly probible that different portions of the gold had several diferent fates?

To be continued....


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Re: Kolchak's Gold 7 years 3 months ago #11460

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hello all

As of 2012 there was interest by a group eager to search lake Baikal look for some of the Kolchak loot.

To be cont....

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Re: Kolchak's Gold 7 years 3 months ago #11461

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As you can see by the pictures that it was big operation. And big money was spent proing the deapth of the lake. In 2012 there was a little press reporting on the expedition.

To be continued...

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Re: Kolchak's Gold 7 years 3 months ago #11462

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As you can see there must of been big money behind the project as these things arn't cheap. Was the Russian administration in partnership with treasure hunters?

But it seems they did fid the mysterious remains of railway carriges deep in the lake floor. This shot was taken for Russian television. There was claims by this group that they found shiny ingots in the crumbling slope of the lake floor and that they had trouble picking up the objects.

I am a little dubious with that claim as it would of been good PR for the project to show pictures of the objects.

However perhaps time will tell.

Interesting all the same.

To be cont.....

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Re: Kolchak's Gold 7 years 3 months ago #11477

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Here is strange newspaper article of an alleged British war repayments to the USA. 17 tons of gold. The ship that carried it was called the SS Minihaha. It sailed from London then New York. Did this ship carry a white Russian Payment for arms? Perhaps some of proceeds of Kolchak gold? The ship arrived on the 6th of april 1920.

It seems quit innocent? Except it was'nt the SS miniehaha as newspapers had claimed?

To be continued...

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Re: Kolchak's Gold 7 years 3 months ago #11478

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Hello again

Continuing the story......

The SS Minnehaha could not have arrived at New York on the 6th of April 1920 because On 7 September 1917, Minnehaha sank within four minutes after being torpedoed by German U-boat U-48, with 43 fatalities off the Fastnet off England.?

Here is one of the last picture of the minihaha before she was sunk in 1917

to be continued....

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Re: Kolchak's Gold 7 years 3 months ago #11479

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The actual ship that arrived in New york on the 6th of April 1920 was the SS Minniekahda. From London to New York What the newspapers do not say for some reason where the ship had orginally sailed from?Orginallyone report suggested she supporting the Britsh forces fighting the Red army and had sailed from the Baltic via Denmark to London then onto New York.

Just a newspaper error or subtefuge?

And what New york companies recived payment of 17tons of gold?

to be continued..

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Re: Kolchak's Gold 7 years 3 months ago #11481

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Continuing on with story...

Of course that was just one theory that some of Kolchaks gold made the way to the United States as payment for arms supplied by a developing us arms trade.

Questions should be asked how much white Russian money ended up in the hands of bankers on wall street? Perhaps even some of kolchaks Gold had really make its way to the united States?

It seem by 1921 at least corporate America had decided that the soviets was in control of Russia and was prepard to do business with them. Even if the American State department had not offically recognised the Soviets in power?

The following document dated july 14 1921 letter from American Russian chamber of commerce requestion clarification on these issues to State department.

Asking about the legal status of Four Russian Banks that was taken over by the Soviets and if they could still trade in russian credits?

And what date if they had been prohibited?

These Banks had Branches in the United States and they had huge amounts of capital in them with unclear status.....

To be continued....

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Re: Kolchak's Gold 7 years 3 months ago #11494

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The following letter to the State department: dated July 27 1927 stated that various listed companies on wall street wanted to do Business with the Soviets as lage sums of money was already in the United States. Even when the United States State department still did not offically recognise the Soviet Union.

The Bank of USSR had large sums of money in Various American banks. What happened to this money and was it orginally apropriated deposits from White Russian banks or part of Kolchaks treasure that was used for payment for American Arms?

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Re: Kolchak's Gold 7 years 3 months ago #11514

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Was it just interest in the money and gold that fled out of Russia before and after the revlolution that big business in the United States was interested in?

It turns out Wall street had vested interests in otaining mining concessions for Manganese ore in Russia which at the time American steel industry was short of. The British steel industry had tied up Managanese reserves in Brazil with British concessions. After the war some of British payments for arms and war supplies came in the form of payment of Manganese. Which in itself created another mystery.....

To be contin...

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Re: Kolchak's Gold 7 years 3 months ago #11525

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USS Cyclops was one of four Proteus-class colliers built for the United States Navy several years before World War I. The loss of the ship and 306 crew and passengers without a trace some time after 4 March 1918 remains the single largest loss of life in U.S. Naval history not directly involving combat.

As it was wartime, there was speculation she was captured or sunk by a German raider or submarine, because she was carrying 10,800 long tons (11,000 t) of manganese ore used to produce munitions, but German authorities at the time, and subsequently, denied any knowledge of the vessel. The Naval History & Heritage Command has stated she "probably sank in an unexpected storm" But the cause of the loss is offically list as unknown to this day.

It is interesting to note that the cargo was part of British WW1 payments to the United States in the form of manganese. America shortage of manganese highlighted the short commingss of the americas arms industry and steel industry at the time. Bankers in wall street was keen to get their hands on this commodity and dealing with with the soviets seemed the only way to get acess to manganese as the white Russian cause by 1921 was hopelessly lost.

To be continued

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Re: Kolchak's Gold 7 years 3 months ago #11527

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Here is letter from american Russian secetary of commerce advising the State Department Eastern European Division. against and inquiry into the maganese deal.

To be continued..

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Re: Kolchak's Gold 7 years 3 months ago #11530

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Hello again

continuing the story...

The US State department was worried at the time of diplomatic complications between them and British Foreign policy as Britsh still thought it possible to overthrow the soviets. But the reality was hard to sink in for the British it was clear that the white Russian cause died with Admiral Kolchak.

Wall street wanted to deal with the Soviets and the Soviets wanted the huge amounts of money and bullion in Russian banks in the United States. The US state department was very concerned to see big business working directly with the Soviets as the US State department had not offically recognised the Soviets.

The letter below from US State Department to the London US Embassy corning the British priministers speech on the status of Russia.

To be continued...


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Re: Kolchak's Gold 7 years 3 months ago #11536

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geez you must be gettng sick of these posts. But I got to have little granpa naps these days :lol:

Continuing the story....

Max May director of the New York guaranty trust company in 1922 was designated director of Moscow bank dealing with former directors of Russian banks to work with the Russian commerical bank estalished by the soviets purely as a banking entity that will replce all the existing banks in Russia to stablise the Russian exchange.

Banking appears to have operated out of the political confins of the political deadlock in recognizing the soviets as the legitimite power in Russia.

As you can see big business had a way of bypassing the state department by having the banks comunicate via a 3rd source thus through the mr Ashburgs bank in Stockholm and various German and American banks.

Stockholm became very important because.....

to be continued

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Re: Kolchak's Gold 7 years 3 months ago #11541

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Kanacki,
You are the BOMB! Your research and story telling is only rivaled by our own Don Jose de La Mancha...
Only he won't give us GPS coordinates of Tayopa! I'm too old to go hiking thru the mountains for his treasure, I have to do the weightless scuba diving thing to try and find mine(ours).
Aquanut
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Re: Kolchak's Gold 7 years 3 months ago #11547

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Hello Aquanut

Thank for the vote of confidence. I was lucky I worked with a freak of nature when it came to treasure research and a lot of his methods rubbed off on me. One lesson he always said was research research and research some more.

Persistance and determination will pay off for those willing to perservere, I am sure the treasure hunting gods will shine down on you one day. And besides most of all it is the journey and the adventure that really matters and not the destination.

Gold and treasure makes life easy yes but it does not bring happyness. But the thrill of the chase to hunt down some thing lost to history there is no better rush....

Kanacki
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Re: Kolchak's Gold 7 years 3 months ago #11549

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The sky is a beautiful blue this morning and the lagoon is like a mirror and temperature is building up for the afternoon storm.

So in lazy heat I will continue about the bank in Stockholm...

There was a newspaper called the Register dated August 4 1922 article telling of a dispatch from august 2 from Stockholm that 40 million roubles worth of Russian stolen church treasure was on the way to London and New York.

This was all being done long before banks had notified the US state department of thier business dealings in October 1922.

Stockholm was the key to geting around any US State department directives as the banks was not dealing directly with the Soviets by via a third party a bank in Stockholm. Millions and millions of gold treasure left Russia as payment in lue of goods and services supplied by corporations on wall street,

In conclusion there is in some circumstances there is evidence that supports the theory that at least some of Kolchaks gold as well as other Russian treasure could of ended up in US Banks.

To be continued

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Re: Kolchak's Gold 7 years 3 months ago #11559

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The fate of Kolchak treasure one third share of the missing offical Russian treasury is mystery indeed with many leads as the treasure was dissapaited by the collapse of the White Russian cause by fleeing Czech legion. One thing for certain it was clear is that the Soviets did not have or recapture at the time Kolchaks part of the treasury.

Kolchak it was said took his secret to the grave . But the fact of the matter he had lost control of the treasure and had nothing to bargin with. That was perhaps one underlying reasons why the Soviets looked to the Russian Othodox Church And looted by the cash strapped Soviets. The Soviets even looted the treasure hidden by the wealthy fleeing whites.

The case of the Russian imperial Crown Jewels is an example

Following the October Revolution the new Soviet Russian Republic, which was seriously low on funds, sought a loan from the Irish Republic, whose finance minister, Michael Collins, had become internationally famous for his fundraising for the unofficial Irish state.

The Crown Jewels were used as collateral by the Soviet Republic for a loan of $25,000 from the Irish Republic. The transfer was made in New York City between the head of the Soviet Bureau' the de facto Soviet Ambassador to America Ludwig Martens, and the Irish envoy in the United States.

Harry Boland. When Boland returned to Ireland the jewels were kept in the house of his mother, Catherine Boland, in Dublin City during the Irish War of Independence. Before Boland died, during the Battle of Dublin, he instructed his mother to keep the jewels hidden from the Free State until the Irish Republicans returned to power.

Mrs Boland returned the jewels to the Irish Government under √Čamon de Valera in 1938. The jewels were placed in a safe in Government Buildings and were forgotten about. Imagine doing that today?

On their discovery in 1948, by the new government led by John A. Costello, it was originally intended that the set of Crown Jewels would be sold by public auction in London. However, after consultations as to their legal status, and negotiations with the Soviet ambassador, it was arranged for them to be returned to the Soviet Union in exchange for the sum of $25,000 originally loaned in 1920. The jewels would ultimately return to Moscow in 1950.

But the story of the jewel do not end there because there is a mystery as once again the transfer took place in New York city. Once again it was via the American connection that the Soviets looked to pawn their state treasures.

The following picture was of a part of a American Deligation to Russia in 1956 to view the Imperial Russian Crown Jewels at the Russian State Diamond Fund.

But even with the Crown Jewels returned to USSR all was not as it seemed?

To be continued..

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