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TOPIC: Golden Library of the Maya

Re: Golden Library of the Maya 7 years 2 months ago #12069

  • Imaginos
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Always interesting to delve into a tale, I never fail to learn some history I wasn't aware of.

Apparently Red Mohun and some of the boys got into a little trouble after getting home. I found an article about grand jury indictments for smuggling weapons and aircraft since it violated US neutrality. Perhaps in the court docs it lists aircraft details?

Also we can add Clark M Carr to the pilots list.

I also read a little piece about Red Mohun and another stunt pilot Dick Grace, preparing for a movie stunt in which they planned on colliding 2 aircraft and bailing out. Stunt work was tough back in the day :) Not related to the story but it says something about the men who braved the skies back in the day. :blink: This image is hidden for guests. Please log in or register to see it.
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Re: Golden Library of the Maya 7 years 2 months ago #12070

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As it turns out charges were dropped, and none of them ended up doing any time.
“Treasure – If it’s out there, we’re going to find it!” (Tommy Vawter)
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Re: Golden Library of the Maya 7 years 2 months ago #12131

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A couple of exerts from Verrill's book (They Found Gold), describing the inside of the Maya Golden Library...

"He was in an underground chamber or vault, and behind him a flight of stone steps led up to the aperture through which he had fallen. Above his head arched a stone roof, and on the farther side of the room, dimly outlined in the semi-darkness, he could see an immense sculptured idol and a square stone table."

"the table-like affair of stone he noticed that it was hollowed into a deep trough from which hung curious-looking objects resembling gigantic fish-hooks with discs in place of eyes."

"he examined them closely, and discovered that, threaded on to the ends resting in the trough, were numbers of square leaves or plates of metal."

"he was amazed to find the plates covered with incised glyphs and figures."

"The surface gleamed dull yellow - it was solid gold."

"But he could barely move it, for the hook-like rod with its attached plates weighed over two hundred pounds! And there were fourteen of the things - fourteen immense hooks, each bearing eleven sheets of beaten, engraved gold!"
“Treasure – If it’s out there, we’re going to find it!” (Tommy Vawter)
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Re: Golden Library of the Maya 7 years 2 months ago #12136

  • Kanacki
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Hello All

Here is picture of some of the pilots who flew in Mexico at the time.

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Re: Golden Library of the Maya 7 years 2 months ago #12141

  • Kanacki
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Hello Wreckdiver

It may be worth seeing if there was a possible connection between this story and your story? If there is it might be worth tracking down the notes of this British Archeologist that led an expedition in 1931? Plus the journal from the 1867 expediion of carmicheal.

It seems strange two simular stories floating about at the same time but not impossible of course?

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Re: Golden Library of the Maya 7 years 2 months ago #12159

  • JudyH
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Very interesting, gentlemen....pardon my shameless bump.... This image is hidden for guests. Please log in or register to see it.
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Re: Golden Library of the Maya 7 years 2 months ago #12191

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Not to worry Judy, I will be back on this subject in earnest when I get back down to Guatemala on Wednesday. In the meantime I have a large aria mapped out based on different aircraft performances, last known location, time in flight from last way-point and last know aircraft heading. However, its still an awfully large section to search on foot. I am now using Google Earth to search possible locations based on Hopes description of landmarks as his crippled aircraft descended into the jungle frontier between Mexico and Guatemala.
“Treasure – If it’s out there, we’re going to find it!” (Tommy Vawter)
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Re: Golden Library of the Maya 7 years 2 months ago #12201

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Awesome. :)

Sounds like it might be the time to consult a map dowser, eh? ;)
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Re: Golden Library of the Maya 7 years 2 months ago #12208

  • David L
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Great Thought Judy!


That's interesting. Perhaps Robert could be persuaded to 'condescend' LOL :P
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Re: Golden Library of the Maya 7 years 2 months ago #12219

HI another coincidence, Dana and Ginger were personal friends of mine and were responsible for my first trip to that area, but not for the Golden Tablets, but just for any ole ruins, and the sheer heck of sustenance living in the jungle We lived in there basically for 6 months..

We did find one and it was duly reported to the Mexican gov't, but I doubt that they ever did any investigating of it, since they still had hundreds on file to investigate.

I met them in the 50's when they had returned from their trip to the Quntana Roo jungles looking for that temple. There wasn't much more that they could tell me that hasn't been posted here.

They helped establish the "Adventurers Club" in Los Angeles, and later invited my partner & I to join on our return to the US.

I entered the Explorers Club instead, but still have my eye on the "Adventurers Club"..

The comb canoe / Kayak which they constructed and traveled down the coast of Latin America to and through the panama canal still holds a high place in the annuals of adventuring. is in the front room of the Adventurers club. Their book "Enchanted Vagabonds" describes that adventure.

Don Jose de La Mancha
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Re: Golden Library of the Maya 7 years 2 months ago #12220

  • Kanacki
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Hello Wreck diver

I could guess the rough location but will not post it here as it is your project you have interest in working on.

I think it was in 2012 there was an expedition by a couple of Germans? A German researcher believes the Dresden Codex is a treasuremap that leads to a lost city and a lake where treasure might be found. Other archieologists cried foul as nothing more than a treasure hunt when he organised an expedition to search for it. It seems to mention gold and treasure is a dirty word among archeological community.

Anyway a facinating story.

Kanacki
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Re: Golden Library of the Maya 7 years 2 months ago #12222

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Hola Don Jose, the Lamb’s are my kind of adventurers to be sure. While I have not yet had the opportunity to read their book "Enchanted Vagabonds", they make several references to that adventure in “Quest for the Lost City”.
I added this book to my library when I read that they too had searched for the Golden Library. It was in this book that I was able to discover the name of the mercenary pilot, as they had been in contact with Hyatt Verrill, who had led the unsuccessful expedition with the pilot not long after his return to the States. In Verrill’s book “They Found Gold”, he only referred to him as the little pilot.

As a former survival instructor in the U.S. Air Force, I was most intrigued with their expedition from a survival point of view. They only carried 100 lbs of gear between the both of them and lived off the land for months at a time made for a fascinating story of survival and fortitude.
“Treasure – If it’s out there, we’re going to find it!” (Tommy Vawter)
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Re: Golden Library of the Maya 7 years 2 months ago #12223

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Kanacki, you are referring to the good professor Rittsteig and the Bild expedition in March 2011. He believes that there is a city with about 8 tons of Mayan gold at the bottom of Lake Izabal. He also believes that this is also the lost city of Atlantis Search for the Lost City of Atlantis. While I don’t share the Professors enthusiasm that the site is Atlantis, he does make a good argument for a lost city.

The Guatemalan Navy stopped the team from diving on the site and they were forced to return to Germany without being able to complete the search. The Professor later was kind enough to provide me with the GPS coordinates to the city after his return to Germany.

The location is shallow enough to dive, but is covered by about 30 feet of overburden and someday I would like to conduct a magnetometer search of the site. However, even if you were able to get positive results with a mag, it would be a very expensive search and recovery operation, even if you could get the permits from the Guatemalan Government.

Unfortunately for Professor Rittsteig he did not contact any professional treasure hunters before he and his German Newspaper sponsor rolled into town. This is a good example of how not to conduct a treasure hunting expedition, especially in a foreign country.

On a side note many of our Archaeologists friends have said that the Mayans did not value or work in Gold, or any other metals. However, my research has uncovered the some of the discoveries of archaeologist Edward Thompson in the late 1800’s and early 1900’s at El Cenote Sagrado, the Sacred Well at Chichen Itza in the Yucatan.

Many thousands of artifacts were recovered from the Cenote and eventually ended up at the Peabody museum at Harvard, and in 1960 the museum gifted some 94 objects of gold and copper back to the Mexican Government. Today, untold amounts of Mayan gold remain in the storage vaults of the Peabody museum.
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Re: Golden Library of the Maya 7 years 2 months ago #12224

  • Kanacki
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Hello wreckdiver

Yes that sounds like the person. I think from my poor memory he believes Atlantis is the Mexican Atlan and the lost city under the lake. And yes he said the naughty word Gold that got archeologists upset. I cannot agree with you more that he certainly went about it the wrong way.

If you want to bring governments on board never say treasure. I could imagine it would be a massive if not impossible undertaken to excavate a such a site.

As for archeologists some are very knowlegable others have been too pumped up by academic snobbery and not as Knowlegeable as they make out. Some times they just agree with one and another to keep the status quo. I knew about the Mayan gold in the Peabody museam.

It seems a little foolish for a professional archeologist to say that Mayan did not work in gold. How I understand it gold was traded through extensive trade trade networks around central America from Costa Rica

The artifacts have been a bone of contention between the Peabody museam and various central American countries for decades.

Nice picture of part of a gold library plate.

Don Jose it is a very interesting book Enchanted Vagabonds I would of loved to have met them. My kind of people.

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Re: Golden Library of the Maya 7 years 2 months ago #12226

G'morning wreck, Time to join el kanack and I for coffee. A bit of partial off topic for a moment. They both were smaller people, he was about my size, 5' 8" 150 # range.

That country now is criss crossed with narco trails and roads hacked out of the virgin jungle for transporting narcotics and human smuggling, plus a few guerilla training camps. In fact I was scheduled to go there with Castro's forces - north east section of Quintana Ro - where they wanted me to fly a Pby 5A to Cuba for him .... another story for another day.

In my days in there, the only major problem that we had was water - most wonder "water in a jungle?" hhehe yes..vines be damned. See accompanying picture of my partner upon finally reaching a major stream after three days without water while packing about 60# each in The famous old Trapper Nelson pack board.

K bk to the subject, attempting to locate a possible search arc on a radius of action covers an enormous amount of jungle. Just imagine how much jungle could / would be covered if the aircraft experienced a head, tail , or side wind, or if the pilot in attempting to shorten the trip flew slightly over cruise or on the contrary, slightly less in order to conserve fuel.

Then again, do you even have a solid lead on which drainage system??


You have your work cut out for you my friend.

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Re: Golden Library of the Maya 7 years 2 months ago #12228

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Gracias Don Jose; yep! narco traffickers are a big problem in that general aria and I have crossed paths with them a couple of times already. Fortunately I saw them first and as far as I can tell they have not yet seen me. That, or they are just as wary of encounters with strangers as I am. In any case, all those years of evasion, camouflage and concealment training kicked in.

As far as establishing search arias, well that's a work in progress, and I am a long way from boots on the ground. There is still much research to do in order to narrow down the possible locations, and then I will need to rack and stack each aria to be covered. I will most likely have to do a few aerial recon flights, so si, mucho trabajo.
“Treasure – If it’s out there, we’re going to find it!” (Tommy Vawter)
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Re: Golden Library of the Maya 7 years 2 months ago #12230

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I believe the Rio Candelaria, in Campeche is navigable up to the Golden Library. If this is so, then it would be an easy 'Dowse'. Of course, it may have been one of it's upper tributaries. Either way, it's a simple Scan--If indeed the Candelaria, is truly the river in question.
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Re: Golden Library of the Maya 7 years 2 months ago #12236

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Hola David, I am not convinced that it was the Rio Candelaria that Hope thought he crossed prior to crashing into the jungle. I say this for a number of reasons, primarily based on the fact that Hope and Verrill believed that it was the Rio Candelaria and they searched that route long and hard without success. Also because there are many other smaller rivers and streams that he could have crossed based on his heading, time in flight from his last waypoint turn and estimated airspeed of his aircraft. I am more and more convinced that he was much further inland than they thought during the Verrill expedition.

As for Dowsing, well it has never really worked for me personally. However, I never dismiss the tools that others are able to make work for them. I would not mind having a professorial dowser like my good friend Dell Winders join in the search, but I don't think Trudy or his health would permit him to go traipsing through the jungles with me.
“Treasure – If it’s out there, we’re going to find it!” (Tommy Vawter)
Last Edit: 7 years 2 months ago by wreckdiver.
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Re: Golden Library of the Maya 7 years 2 months ago #12238

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Howdy Tommy-

I have two mayor successes to my credit, as a map dowser. I expect I'll have many more, before my lights go out, altogether.

I do not need to be down there where you are--I have plenty on my plate right here in the good ole USA.

I have two systems of 'Dowsing'. One based in physics (which I prefer) And one based in metaphysics--Which is a great deal more difficult--and commensurately inaccurate.

My Gravitron System is predominantly physics-based--accounting for it's much greater reliability. I have zero confidence in any system, or technology presently on the market. Especially when it comes to Photo Scanning.

My services will cost you nothing--as we are not profiteers, when it comes to those things that rightly belong to humanity. I presently have sufficient of that type of burden. As early as 1980, John gave me one of his discoveries--perhaps just to test me. I visited it once, just to confirm it's existence--and have not been back. But, I have used it as a test-target on occasion.

If you like, I will scan some Google Earth Images for gold (Gmail address). As the Gravitron is physics-based, I will not be able to tell you whether that gold is naturally occurring, or smelted.

David
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Re: Golden Library of the Maya 7 years 2 months ago #12239

G'afternoon David: A cool, fresh,limeade in the patio? Physics & meta-physics? hmm can you clarify this a bit.

Don Jose de La Mancha
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